Oradell Residents Worried by Hekemian Development's Traffic Impact
Oradell Mayor considers suing New Milford if variances approved; Oradell residents expressed their concerns in their home town as New Milford Zoning Board heard the proposed United Water development's impact on traffic in New Milford
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While audience members and the New Milford Zoning Board heard from traffic engineer Elizabeth "Betsy" Dolan Tuesday night on the possible traffic impact and trip generation by the development of the United Water property, the Oradell governing body listened to its own residents concerns and considered what steps could be made on their part.
"I view the traffic concern as an economic issue," Maple Avenue resident Regina Little said. "When you have more traffic you are required to use a higher quality material for repairs which would impact the budget. I'm also concerned with the question of flooding, this project would add impervious coverage to an area that could force water into the electrical generators, our cellars; it's a disaster waiting to happen."
The United Water property project, designed by New Milford Redevelopment Associates LLC, for the 13.6 acre lot call for a 70,500 sq. ft. supermarket, a 4300 sq. ft. bank, 221 residential townhouse units, a parking lot and a four-story parking garage.
Dolan in her testimony to New Milford assessed the existing infrastructure in the vicinity of the site, and identified existing traffic patterns, and projects future traffic volumes.
She primarily focused her analysis of River Road in the area of New Milford High School and the intersections of River Road, Cecchino Drive and Main Street, and Madison Avenue and Cecchino Drive and Main Street and studied over the course of one year.
But in Oradell, residents were more concerned about any impact to New Milford Road and on Elm Street once the bridge rehabilitation has been completed and is open to the public.
"In addition to flooding and traffic, I'm also seriously concerned with the infrastructure," Beechwood Road resident Tom Belthoff said. "The New Milford Ambulance services Oradell, our fire and police departments provide coverage to New Milford. If you drive up New Milford Avenue during rush hour, school openings or closing, you're lucky there are no collisions with the trains. At some point the Elm Street Bridge will be open and that will serve as a cut-through and impact residents on Elm and Grove."
According to Dolan, she focused her study at the following hours during the month of September 2011 and February, March and April 2012:
- Monday through Friday 7am-9am; 2pm to 4pm; and 4pm to 6pm.
- 1pm to 2pm Saturday
- 7pm to 9pm summarized peak hour at each intersection
- 2pm to 4pm
- 4pm to 6pm
- Saturday 11am to 2pm
The study determined that with the addition of traffic generated by the proposed development, the levels of service and delay for the River Road, Cecchino Drive and the Madison Avenue intersections would not cause any change in service. It was determined that all approaches will operate at "acceptable levels of service or better with the addition of site traffic."
Dolan indicated in her testimony that the combination of existing street volume and site generated traffic is "not that high." She also said that because the plans call for more than one ingress and egress site - there will be two on River Road, one on Main Street and one on Madison Avenue - the traffic will not be forced through any one exit. With no individual driveway being burdened, she said that there will not be any disruption in the flow of traffic.
"Elm Street will be used as a cut street," Demarest Avenue resident Mike Kurk said. "The flooding is a no-brainer with the creation of impervious surfaces, you will have areas on Grove that have never flooded before, St. Joseph's will flood. I've had four floods in the 10 years I've lived in town.
Previously, Hekemian engineering expert Michael Dipple stated that based on the 1980 flood maps he used , there would not be any additional flooding to the area due to the installation of two detention system basins on the south end of the property, infiltration systems and the use of berms around the property to reduce the rate of surface runoff.
"One of our problems is how to go about fighting this," Oradell Mayor Joseph Murray said. "I'm not sure what recourse we could have short of suing New Milford if the Zoning Board approves all those variances."
In the meantime, Oradell will seek an engineering expert and flooding expert to advise them about what they could do. Normally, Oradell is represented by Boswell Engineering but a conflict as arisen as the company also represents New Milford.
Have a question or a news tip? Email the editor Ann Piccirillo at annpiccirillo@yahoo.com. Or, follow us on Facebook and Twitter. For news straight to your email inbox, sign up for our daily newsletter.
In This article
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New Milford High School
Snyder Circle, New Milford, NJ -
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New Milford Volunteer Ambulance Corp
213 River Rd, New Milford, NJ -
Oradell Fire Department
335 Kinderkamack Rd, Oradell, NJ
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Oradell Police Department
355 Kinderkamack Rd, Oradell, NJ -
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Susan Kaprielian
11:26 am on Friday, August 17, 2012
Great....just what we need!!!
Denise
11:31 am on Friday, August 17, 2012
I forgot but Susan reminded me.....I was also going to say the same thing,just what we need, what more can happen to out small town of New Milford.
Denise
11:29 am on Friday, August 17, 2012
What is wrong with the polititians in New Milford....they are not playing with a full deck. It is a shame that Oradell cannot use Boswell Engineering since they are already representing NM. I would not be half surprised if the Oradell mayor sued NM if this project goes through......
Martha
11:42 am on Friday, August 17, 2012
APPLAUSE! APPLAUSE! APPLAUSE FOLLOWED BY STANDING OVATION!
A round of applause to the Mayor of Oradell, and to the residents of Oradell who realize THE NEGATIVE IMPACT that this proposed Hekemian monstrosity will create for our sister town, Oradell!
It is terribly sad that New Milford's governing body have blinders on regarding this Hekemian monstrosity; their vision of this "ratable generating paradise" is simply a mirage! They need to come down from their "la-la" state & deal with reality! They need to truly represent the people that elected them to office, as well as to their neighboring town!
Susan
11:50 am on Friday, August 17, 2012
The area is a floodzone why would they build anything there. Do they really think a few holding basins will help when the river comes over?
Martha
12:36 pm on Friday, August 17, 2012
You know that! I know that! Almost all of the residents know that! But apparently, the so-called "experts" that Hekemian hired with all of their Ivy League schooling, & volumes of credentials do not know that! They hide under the guise of out-dated 32 year old maps, & state that they are following the law. Not one expert has testified at the NM Zoning Board Hearings of ANY NEGATIVE IMPACT. I repeat, according to the "experts" not one negative impact has been mentioned, despite all the negative impacts presented by the public. They weave intricate webs of fiction hoping that the public will tire of their convoluted graphs, & charts which are basically garbage. They simply pluck figures from outdated reports without checking the validity, or veracity, of the info., in addition to not taking the current reality, such as flooding, into account. At one hearing, Mr. Dipple, Hekemian's engineer, stated that he was too busy to check the DEP's website regarding flooding in the Bergen County area as he was working on many simultaneous projects. So much for the testimony of Hekemian's expert engineer!
Having an Ivy League education and credentials does not equate to having expertise in a particular field. Bill Gates did not even graduate from college, and if the opportunity arose, Hekemian's experts would tell Bill Gates that he does not know what he is talking about, & that they did because they utilized archaic data. The irony of it all!
Ulises
12:16 pm on Friday, August 17, 2012
Thank you Oradell for your solidarity. Thank you Mayor Murray for standing up against this development. If only our Mayor would realize that a ShopRite along the river is a bad idea for all surrounding neighborhoods. She's rezoning this land in the developrer's interest and could careless about the interest of her constituents.
Please, do not rezone this land to commercial use Mayor Subrizi - we don't need a ShopRite there!
Martha
12:49 pm on Friday, August 17, 2012
I am not knocking anyone who went to an Ivy League school, or, has a listing of credentials....my point is that an education is not equivalent to intelligence. I, myself, have several degrees, but I also respect the fact that an individual may be an expert in a particular field without having had the opportunity to have had/completed an education. There should be a mandatory prerequisite for a degree, and that would be COMMON SENSE. If that were the case, then ALL OF HEKEMIAN'S EXPERTS would have to be disqualified as not one of them would have passed the common sense course.
Denise
3:37 pm on Friday, August 17, 2012
Hopefully with Oradell Mayor Murray & the rest of the kind "Oradellians" together we can fight this bad dream.....After all, they did win against Walgreens, they know what they're doing!
SOD OUT!!
TommyIce
7:24 pm on Friday, August 17, 2012
They won because their leadership saw it as a bad option for their town and supported what their constituents wanted. Our leadership is looking through "ratable googles."
Our leadership will tell you that there's no use fighting Heikemian because in the end he will win. History is loaded with David and Goliath stories--starting with David and that overgrown ogre. We are just lucky that John Adams didn't cave in to the other "politicians."
There has to be more to ratables to this desire for the Heikemian/Suez pillaging.
I heard a good many of these council members state in their "victory" speeches about the quality of life in NM and their DESIRE to keep that quality of life. Why the about face? What has so convinced them that this is a good thing for New Milford?
Barbara
6:16 pm on Friday, August 17, 2012
Thank you Oradell residents and Mayor Murray!
Ulises
10:43 pm on Friday, August 17, 2012
Bonita, the catch basin wouldn't hold all the water during major storms, the excess will end up in our low lying neighborhoods and in the High School's cafeteria. This is not only about those that live across the street from the development. The homes in our low lying neighborhoods in town will eventually go away if we continue to build along the river and that means less taxes being collected and and it will offset any revenue generated by a new ShopRite and another bank in town. This property is not being sold for $16M either. The traffic impact on our town is real with a super market that big and that part of River Road is not owned by the county so it's our tax payers money that will upkeep all the repairs. Oradell realizes this traffic impact from a mega Shoprite, twice the size of the existing one today, and it effects their roads too, which in turn increases their taxes. The traffic will change their neighborhoods forever and it will do the same to ours in New Milford. This property was never suppose to be developed and it's in the works now because the last mayor changed the Master Plan. And now the current mayor will probably rezone this property to commercial at Monday's Mayor & Council meeting
sumdumfuk
11:44 pm on Sunday, August 19, 2012
In my humble opinion, if there were any payoffs, they are at the state GOP level, the orders and funds then trickle down to the county GOP, then to the town. What could they possibly be getting a couple of grand in a election fund? NM screwed itself in the wake of the fallout of the Obama election, we elected the GOP candidates as a protest. Anyone other than a democrat could have won and they dis. If this crew does not come out and say they are against the 200+ apartments a republican should never again be elected to any office in this town. This coming from a lifelong conservative. I am beyond angry at the lack of strength our elected officials are demonstrating. This does not happen in other towns for a very good reason. Listen to how the Mayor of Oradell speaks, then listen to the way the Mayor of New Milford speaks. Night and Day. In public, New Milford Citizens should literally turn their backs to the elected officials and their families until they come out and say they are for or against these apartments. Finally, where is the organized boycott and protest against Inserra? Lets shut this guy down for a couple of weeks to let him know this is going to cost him money no matter what. SOD
Peter F
11:34 pm on Friday, August 17, 2012
May be you should contact the FBI to see if any of the elected officials are taking a kickback for the new development. It does not need to be monetary
TommyIce
10:59 am on Saturday, August 18, 2012
Follow the money? What's in it for them? Hmmm very good questions. Where are our Woodward and Bernstein?
Lori Barton
8:20 am on Saturday, August 18, 2012
Thank you, thank you, thank you Oradell residents, Mayor and Council. We in New Milford agree with all of your observations. Please continue to question the questionable experts that Hekemian brings forth. This traffic report, like all the other "expert" reports, is seriously flawed. And please try to attend the New Milford Mayor and Council meetings to express your concerns. There are many of us who feel that the Mayor and Council is a bigger concern than the Zoning Board. They may vote to rezone the property. Let them know that you want the current zoning to stand. It is currently zoned for single family housing. No developer will purchase flood plain land, especially in a depressed housing market, to develop that parcel as single family homes. Join SOD (Stop OverDevelopment) to preserve the quality of life that we expect in our communities. Check out our website at sodnow.org for more info on how to join. (Next council meeting is Monday, 8/20 at 7 PM. Special Zoning Board meeting, Thursday, 8/23 at 7 PM.)
TommyIce
3:08 pm on Saturday, August 18, 2012
Bonita you are right about not everyone agreeing. I don't believe their experts and I believe they misrepresenting and misdirecting facts.
Oh and I don't live across the street from it. How about you?
John Michael
1:03 pm on Saturday, August 18, 2012
The property we are discussing is privately owned . A denial from the Zoning Board will not end this problem, instead it will push it right into court system. At that point - all the us, elected or not, become spectators awaiting a judges ruling. Thousands of our taxpayer dollars (democrat and republican) will be spent - to what end? I think the only leverage we have is to get the COAH obligation moved. Thankfully, the mayor and council have authorized a rezoning study, I just hope it works.
Martha
1:41 pm on Saturday, August 18, 2012
Sorry to say, but you are quite wrong in stating "thankfully, the mayor & council have authorized a rezoning study." This could become a greater debacle if the zoning is changed....it will welcome all developers to build whatever they please, including COAH. Why should we be thanking the mayor & council when the $1.5 million offer + additional funding to purchase the property was never disseminated to the public; it was kept under wraps and no follow-up was ever done. Only recently, it was pried out by a member of SOD who stood steadfast & kept asking questions until the mayor excused herself & had a side-bar with counsel. What does that tell you? I do not think that “thank you” is in order at this time. We are quite aware that the property is privately owned. SOD has attended every single solitary M & C meeting, Zoning Board meeting, and "Special Hekemian" Zoning Board meetings. We are an intelligent group of people that are quite aware of the facts of this matter and we have worked & are working countless hours to prevent the negative impact this monstrosity will have on NM, Oradell, & neighboring towns!
Martha
1:45 pm on Saturday, August 18, 2012
You mentioned that the taxpayers dollars would be spent to what end? At least we (members of SOD) & our neighbors, have the courage, & determination to fight the fight instead of adopting a "defeatist" attitude. Would you rather your taxpayers dollars go to increased property taxes to pay for the additional students a 221 unit complex will bring, or, to the salaries of more teachers, or, to the salaries of increased police, or, to a paid fire department versus a volunteer fire dept., or, to Blue/Green Acres to purchase homes that will repeatedly flood, as this development will certainly exacerbate the flooding problem? Would you rather your taxpayer dollars pay for infrastructure/road damage? The projected ratables will be dwarfed & overtaken by the increase in expenses. Well, as a member of SOD, I will take my chances instead of sitting back on the sidelines to fight for what I firmly believe in!
Our politicians were elected to represent the public, and I, as a member of the public, have the right to fight for a cause. No dollar value can be placed on that. Complacency is not in my genes.
Martha
2:08 pm on Saturday, August 18, 2012
Bonita,
Obviously, you have not attended any meetings, nor, viewed any of the "experts" charts. I am sure that you have not even read any of the reports. How can you then make a statement that Hekemian's people know better than us? Let me ask you two basic (with subquestions) & elementary questions that a child can correctly answer.....
New Milford's school system is already overcrowded approximately 25%. If you add more students to the school system, will the 25% figure stay the same? Would 25% + 10% = 25%, or, would 25% + 10% = 35%? Will the students be at a disadvantage to learn because there will me more students added to class?
If you had the opportunity to buy an identical home...one is on a quiet street, & the other one is several feet from a noisy commercial/residential complex with tractor trailers entering at all times, which one would you select? Wouln't the house on the quiet street have a higher market value than a house in front of a commerical/residental complex?
A child can answer these questions correctly, but the so-called Hekemian experts would answer the opposite way. Attend the meetings so you could see first-hand yourself if you do not believe what I have told you.
Bonita
12:17 pm on Monday, August 20, 2012
I live in New Milford as well. I have said I don't want the apts. But I do want the Shop Rite and the football field. You people should be honest with everyone and admit you want NO development. It has not helped the flooding with nothing there and I don't believe that is will be the end of New Milford as we know as you would like everyone to beleive. By the way way most people I talk to want the Shop Rite just not the apartments We need tax revenue.
And yes people from Oradell can voice their opiinions, but they do not pay taxes in New Milford and I do
Martha
2:13 pm on Saturday, August 18, 2012
Let me clarify, I said that "the so-called Hekemian experts would answer the opposite way. I meant to actually say that the so-called Hekemian experts would answer the opposite way AND HAVE ANSWERED THE OPPOSITE WAY IN THEIR TESTIMONY BEFORE THE ZONING BOARD.
I believe that Hekemian's experts have watched too many so-called reality shows (which are far from reality, as they are staged shows) & are so delusional that they really believe every word that comes out of their mouths!
Lori Barton
9:44 pm on Saturday, August 18, 2012
I must add a comment to Bonita. You stated that I do not want the property across the street from me developed. FYI, I do not live in that area. I am not one of those NIMBY people. I oppose this project as a resident of New Milford for all of the reasons I stated. I happen to live on a quiet street that will not be directly impacted by increased traffic. My area does not flood. My kids are done with school. And STILL, I understand that this is BAD for New Milford. Check the paper I referenced and you will start to understand the many reasons to leave this as open space.
Michelle
11:21 pm on Saturday, August 18, 2012
To “my friends” whose time Bonita is wasting: just like chat, IGGY that. Something doesn’t jive with the way she speaks and what she’s saying. SMELLS LIKE A PLANT. Someone wants Oradell to stay out of it, because they fear that the resistance is growing too big. This same someone is offering a compromise: just keep the SuperShopRite, but not the apartment complex. They’re planting seeds. Won’t be long before that option surfaces and betrays the writer of these silly messages.
BOnitA obviously has something to gain from this development, and appears to care less if people get hurt by it. The entire community, and anyone in its vicinity, and anyone downstream of this thing will enjoy more traffic, more pollution, more strain on the infrastructure, and YES, more flooding. It’s not just the people across the street fighting this thing as is evidenced by Oradell’s involvement. Properties cannot be developed if the development will infringe in any way upon the rights of other property owners.
Barbara
8:38 am on Sunday, August 19, 2012
Michelle, I picked up the same about Bonita. Could it be the mayor or a council person?
Martha
10:00 am on Sunday, August 19, 2012
Michelle,
Thank you for writing such wonderful pieces!
Like you & Barbara too, I picked up the same vibe about Bonita.
As I said in my other posts, I respect the opinion of others; however, that respect only goes so far, when the individual forms opnions based on nonsense and not facts of the matter. This Bonita person, if there is such a person, has not read any of the reports, transcripts, nor, has attended any meetings. Bonita has not had the courage to make her case in public, but writes in the comfort of her home!
Bonita
12:22 pm on Monday, August 20, 2012
How am I wasting your time,because I disagree with you? Get a clue it is my right to disagree, and I get To write about it just the same way as you do.
Bonita
12:24 pm on Monday, August 20, 2012
And to all you people that think I have something to gain, you could not be more wrong, I didn't even vote for the current mayor. I am just a citizen of New Milford who pays way too much in taxes. Funny how if you don't agree with all the rabble I am somehow not a legitimate voice about this. Get used to it not everyone agrees with you.
Michelle
11:22 pm on Saturday, August 18, 2012
We don’t sell our neighbors out. And we’re grateful for Oradell’s conscience, sense of responsibility, priority, intelligence and support.
The advanced flooding in this town is proof enough that we’ve already overdeveloped beyond what we should have. Any development at this point is overdevelopment. We are losing our ratio to sustain our health. These billion dollar companies are screwing with our biology, and the residents in the communities that are being stripped of their green space are paying the price. As my friend Joan says, so much of what supports us is not perceptible to the naked eye, although it is essential to our survival.
Michelle
11:22 pm on Saturday, August 18, 2012
Just like Gulliver who was held down by 1000s of threads. Each one doesn’t seem to mean much, and in the case of a thread, can be easily broken. But 1000s of them can have a very strong effect.
SOD!
Michelle
9:48 am on Sunday, August 19, 2012
I have no way of knowing who it is, but my thought was someone in the Hekemian camp: DelVecchio or one of Hekemian's other tools. They originally focused on the Supermarket thinking that would be their in, into NM. They threw in a field to sinch the deal. When they realized it wasn't working, that a compromise was not an option, they backed out of their field offer and decided to play hardball with NM's affordable housing obligation. They couldn't entice us, so they're resorting to force, just as they did with Cranford.
From the Patch article at http://newmilford-nj.patch.com/articles/developer-presents-commercial-use-of-united-water-property: "The anchor is intended to be Inserra Supermarkets and there are a lot of benefits that can be achieved by redeveloping and moving to the new site," said Andy DelVecchio, a lawyer from the firm Beattie Padovano who represented the Hekemian Group.
If you notice, when their presentation was not received so well, they changed from the family restaurant they originally presented to NM to an apartment complex with an affordable housing element, their new anchor. Hekemian intends to build. And apparently it doesn't matter much what. He's got an addiction. And as with all addictions, those who are in the way... well, we'll see won't we.
Denise
11:15 am on Monday, August 20, 2012
Hey Bonita, I was wondering...do you live in New Milford or Oradell?
Martha
1:18 pm on Monday, August 20, 2012
Bonita,
I do not think that people are being mean. You are not answering questions. You have yet to answer the question as to whether you read any of the official reports, documents, transcripts, or, have attended any of the meetings well over a year that most people have. You seem to be hiding from answering those questions.
The Field of Dreams is not slated for the United Water Property. It is not part of the plan; it is not part of the application. Are you aware of that? It will be on the ballot for NM residents to vote whether they want their taxes to be raised approximately $100.00 per year for the next 10 years for the Field of Dreams. The cost for this project is $3 Million Dollars & could be more & it will be paid for by the residents of New Milford. It has nothing to do with the United Water property, or, Shoprite. But I guess that you knew that since you attended all of the meetings. I guess you will vote No for the Field of Dreams since you said that you pay too much in taxes.
Denise
2:41 pm on Monday, August 20, 2012
Bonita, I have one question. As I understand it you work late in the city and have not come to any of the meetings to learn about this debacle. You say you will make every effort to come to the next meeting. Will you stand before a fully packed room like a lot of us did and make your opinions/efforts known.....I know most of the people in the room won't want to hear them, that's why they are there.
SOD OUT!!
Martha
3:22 pm on Monday, August 20, 2012
Bonita,
The current application before the Zoning Board is between 2 private entities, United Water & Hekemian. In order for the Shoprite and bank to be built, as part of the mixed use development, they MUST build the 220+ unit apartments with affordable housing. There cannot be Shoprite without the apartments; there is no negotiation regarding that aspect. Hekemian would not be before the board seeking variances for just a supermarket. I do not know how much clearer I can be. You cannot have one without the other. If the Master Plan changes and the zoning changes, that would be a different story. Hekemian would sue & it will wind up in the court system either way.
The sale is not 100% official & therefore, neither the Bergen Record, nor, the Patch has the exact figure. Media is not considered a legal document. The figure would be registered with the Bergen County Clerk's office once the sale is official. Our public officials have estimated the sale to be between $7 & $8 million dollars.
We have many people who work in NY and come to the meetings. They run at times until past 11:30PM, and one meeting ended past midnight, at 12:40AM to be exact. So, please come.
Lastly, I was confused when you said in your post that you would love a Field of Dreams, whatever that means. Did you mean to say that you really do not know what a Field of Dreams is?
Barbara
4:24 pm on Monday, August 20, 2012
We can have he field of dreams on the ballot and not this development? This shows that our leadership does not care about the people who suffer from flodding. Let's keep this in mind when we are discussing this development. The flood area expands with each storm and this development would help the flood are expand further. I vote for no more suffering and let's put that on the ballot. Let's use the funds for the field toward this land.
John Michael
4:56 pm on Monday, August 20, 2012
Why? Because the land is privately owned. The property behind the Middle School is not.
Mary McElroy
2:40 pm on Tuesday, August 21, 2012
The concept of a "field of dreams" and the work that has been done to try & make such a field a reality was brought about PRIMARILY DUE TO FLOODING. The HS field, the Jr. football field/Babe Ruth field and Pavone field all flood severely. I'd imagine flooding is the only reasons the M&C even gave the idea any consideration. Chronic flooding, along with the fact that we have more kids playing sports in town, both recreationally and on travel teams, demonstrated a need to finally look at finding a solution. We have a M&C who have been open to the idea of working with our BOE & that says something favorable about both groups, especially our mayor. It was those of us frustrated by the flooding that rallied hundreds of people to come out the HS last April to listen to the initial presentation by Heikeman. I can't imagine the anger & frustration of those who own a home in an area that floods due to UW. The frustration with the flooding & condition of our fields has been the main reason why I became involved in the field of dreams and have continued to work on a solution since last April. People seem to forget that we don't own the UW land, perhaps one day, certainly not in the near future, we may be able to pick it up at a fair price. Until then, I'll continue to oppose Heikeman & attend every meeting while also continuing to work on a field of dreams.
Martha
5:28 pm on Monday, August 20, 2012
Bonita,
You mentioned the following:
"You people should be honest with everyone and admit you want NO development. "
We are honest. The members of SOD do not want any development on the United Water Property; we want to leave it as open space because NM is over-developed and the proposed development will impact us & neighboring towns negatively. How more honest can we be? The Field of Dreams has nothing to do with the sale/development of the United Water Property. REPEAT, THE FIELD OF DREAMS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE UNITED WATER PROPERTY. The Field of Dreams has nothing to do with SOD which stands for Stop Over-Development. Some people of SOD are for the Field of Dreams and other members of SOD are against the Field of Dreams. It is a totally different subject. Just like some members of SOD are from the Republican party & others are from the Democratic party. Regardless of our beliefs on other topics, we are united in our efforts to prevent any development on the United Water Property; that is the reason we joined forces.
We formed for that reason only.
Martha
11:51 am on Tuesday, August 21, 2012
Bonita,
If you had the chance to attend the Mayor & Council meeting last night, you would have found out, as we have been saying all along, that the sale of the United Water property is estimated between $7 & $8 million dollars, not $16 Million Dollars as you have repeatedly insisted.
We are aware that COAH is in a temporary state of flux, as we have done our homework, but that does NOT prevent the developer to utilize COAH units in his proposed development. The more development there is in town, our COAH obligation increases. The application is Grandtathered in and once again, you are mistaken, as the developer can legally proceed, regardless of the fact that COAH is in a state of flux. There is no argument there!
If you attended the meetings, you would know that we have already asked the M & C to petition the state to include the apartments as part of COAH. The COAH obligation can be transferred to the apartments if the owner "rehabilitates" the apartments to conform to COAH guidelines. He will not do this for free, he would want something in return from NM ie tax reduction, which would mean an increase in your taxes. The Mayor did say that she called Brunetti several times & he has not had the decency to return her calls. So, as I said before, we already know what you have posted as we have been working hours & hours per day gathering FACTUAL information by looking, researching official documents.
The Mayor & Council have no.
Martha
12:02 pm on Tuesday, August 21, 2012
Bonita,
Lastly, I agree with you that the town cannot afford to buy the property; however, SOD has tirelessly worked and is continuing to work in securing funding from outside sources, should the deal ever fall through, or, if Hekemian decides to throw in the towel. There are other options, but one must keep an open mind!
As I said before, the Field of Dreams has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the current application. SOD does not endorse, or, is against it! It is a totally different subject and is not part of the United Water property/Hekemian development.
Martha
12:49 pm on Tuesday, August 21, 2012
Sorry to hear that you believe everything you read when you use Google. I guess, Google is right, the Mayor & Council are wrong. Believe what you like, that is your choice.
Secondly, I have tried to be as rational as possible, but I can see that you have not mastered the English language so well!
I am not expressing my opinion on the Field of Dreams as I have repeatedly said that it is a separate issue from the United Water Development. But you obviously, do not get it! For the hundredth time, that question will be on a ballot for the residents to vote as to whether they want to proceed with a field for our youth or not. I am a member of SOD fighting against the United Water development. We have some members who would like to see a Field of Dreams, and other members who do not want to see a Field of Dreams. I do not know how much clearer I can be. I have been crystal clear, and sorry that you fail to see that or understand!
For your information, the current proposed location for the Field of Dreams is the David E. Owens Middle School. Once again, it has nothing to do with the current application by Hekemian for the United Water Property. And once again, my concern is only to fight the United Water property development. Once again, I have been crystal clear!
Lori Barton
5:11 pm on Tuesday, August 21, 2012
Bonita: AML is correct concerning the amount that Hekemian is paying for the UW property. The entire parcel is 16 acres, not $16 million. Hekemian wants to buy 13 acres. Many of us are hopeful that the zoning board will refuse to grant the variances requested and the courts will also turn Hekemian down. The property, while still zoned for single family housing, will be greatly depreciated. There is no developer who will want to purchase flood plain land to build single family housing. So while that is the current zoning, no one truly believes that those houses will ever be built. Then perhaps grant money will be lined up for New Milford to purchase this property.
ShopRite has the approvals to build a bigger, better store right where they are and that is what they should do. I, for one, have written to Inserra to tell them that I will not shop at ANY Inserra ShopRite as long as there are any plans to relocate to the UW property.
The field of dreams is a totally separate issue. There will be a referendum this fall to see if the public wants to bond the funds to rebuild the MIDDLE SCHOOL field.
I hope this clarifies things for you. AML has tried to tell you these same things a few times.
Bonita
10:03 am on Wednesday, August 22, 2012
Thank you Lori, you have been very respectful. Imhave some questions for long term, let's say thwmtown does purchase the property, open land does not take care of itself, we would have to pay for the grading, planting, and any recreational equipment, then hire additional DPW workers, as well as police to keep it safe and now we would be paying for all of this without any revenue against it, so it is a pure tax increase now and for future generations. Have you done any accounting of potential costs? Thanks for being patient.
Barbara
3:38 pm on Wednesday, August 22, 2012
The open land could be tied in with the water works museum. Proceeds from that venue could be used for upkeep.
Or what about leaving it as woods and do nothing with the land?
Martha
5:16 pm on Tuesday, August 21, 2012
Obviously, you are the one who has a problem with everyone else. You were the one who said "you people," you are the one who called everyone else a liar. I do not have to take anger mangagement courses. You need to take English, Common Sense, and Memory Courses. I said in my post that no one is trying to be mean. You are the one who is interpreting passion as being mean. You have a problem with reality & memory.
As I am now saying for the thousandth time, It is not my field of dreams. You keep saying "my field of dreams." If you go back & check the posts you were the one who firstly mentioned a football field in your post of Aug, 20 and many of us responded to that post. Since you cannot remember, I have indicated it below:
With that said, I am not dignifying responding to your posts since you just do not get it. Check the earlier posts when other people thought that you were not even real. It is OK to disagree, but you accused us of being liars and not knowing what we are talking about. But then again, you are right, since you attended all of the meetings. Good luck in your quest!
Bonita
12:17 pm on Monday, August 20, 2012
I live in New Milford as well. I have said I don't want the apts. But I do want the Shop Rite and the football field. You people should be honest with everyone and admit you want NO development
Bonita
7:30 pm on Tuesday, August 21, 2012
Yes I want the football field on the united water site next to the high school I did not forget, and you are the one that mentioned the field of dreams which has nothing to do with the united water site, so don't bring it up. I have called no one a liar, so really, get off your high horse. And all those posts about me not being real are just cruel, i am a tax paying citizen of New Miford, because I don't agree with you I am a "plant" as one person put it, really! I speak excellent English, have a wonderful memory and my common sense is intact, somehow you think it is ok to be insulting to me. Every post you have made to me you have inserted some insult, that is not ok.
I am glad you will not respond, it is you that is confusing anger with passion it is not all right to put someone down in an attempt to prove your point that is not passion it is just plain rude.
Good luck, take a deep breath, and have a nice night.
TommyIce
8:15 pm on Tuesday, August 21, 2012
There will not be JUST a SuperShopRite on that land. There will not be 50 singles family homes. Neither will happen if Heikemian purchases that property. Heikemian ONLY builds mixed use developments (commercial + residential). To see that all you need to do is visit their website.
So don't rezone it and Heikemian will walk away. Do you think another developer would purchase flood prone land to build up to 50 houses in a town that is already overloaded with unsold homes in an economy that is tanking?
miriam pickett
8:39 pm on Tuesday, August 21, 2012
In the end the question is do we want greenspace or do we want more asphalt? Do we want to lose our character? Do we need a gigantic supermarket in the middle of a residential neighborhood. Do we want an empty space in the middle of town bringing values down and causing blight? Bonita, if that's your vision for New Milford, I'm surprised you haven't run for public office. You are very glib about other peoples' homes being flooded, your neighbors being choked by air pollution, school age children trying to get an education in overcrowded classrooms. Your information is incorrect. You are either a plant or very easily influenced by men in suits. I am astonished that anyone could believe this will somehow lower taxes. Luckily for New Milford there are a group of informed citizens who are willing to fight for a vision of New Milford that is diametrically opposed to yours. I wish you luck. You'll need it.
Martha
12:16 pm on Wednesday, August 22, 2012
Ditto!
Couldn't have said it better myself!
Barbara
9:07 pm on Tuesday, August 21, 2012
And do we want to cause more human suffering? For me that is the most important reason for not developing land so close to a river. Common sense.
Denise
12:12 pm on Wednesday, August 22, 2012
According to Bonita "any developer could build 50 homes on the UW property as long as they are built to code" . Would you buy a home in a flood zone?
Martha
12:30 pm on Wednesday, August 22, 2012
Not unless, I have this crazy desire to be rescued by a rowboat as waters rise higher & higher, & I would like to showcase my singing talent by singing "row, row, row your boat gently down the stream...merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, life is but a dream" as my home and possesions are ravaged by flood waters. I am happy to say that I do not live in a "fantasy" world, so my answer would be no!
Lori Barton
6:44 pm on Wednesday, August 22, 2012
Bonita: Regarding your last questions concerning the cost involved of maintaining open space, there is a wealth of information showing that the long range costs of maintaining open space is far LESS than the costs generated from commercial and retail development. In Keeping Our Garden State Green: A Local Government Guide for Greenway and Open Space Planning, author Linda Howe points out that "commercial development may have hidden municipal costs. Such development, for example, may affect state requirements for low and moderate income housing. Or it may necessitate an increase in spending for police and fire protection or traffic control, and sewage treatment. The N. J. Office of State Planning agrees: "New retail development . . . require(s) outlays for public services such as police, fire, courts, road maintenance and traffic control." The costs of servicing development are unending and will increase over time. Over time commercial real estate is depreciated while residential real estate increases in value, changing the balance of property tax assessments. The proportion of taxes paid by commercial ratables generally decline over time, being subsidized by residential taxpayers.