It is gauling that United Water and the developer have no problem "gambling" that they will be able to intimidate the town into changing existing zoning laws to the long-term detriment of its citizens.

I guess that's what happens when you live in a small town. There are those who feel one way about a town project and then there are others who feel the opposite way. Accordingly, each tries to come up with reasons why they are right. Probably the reason courts have judges obviously...

As I read these raw Facts - again - all I see is the Mayor, HEARING what Marlene DID say regarding what WAS and what was NOT guaranteed and what was Possibly available IF all conditions MIGHT fall into place should the Gods shine brightly on us, did perhaps put this apparent "buyer's remorse" on the back burner. While previously, Hekemian had ALREADY started a negotiation with UW. Surely there is an aspect of possible eminent domain, but I don't think that actually applies here.

and to me what is and has been my sore point is because of DYS, MIS and LACK of full information, Annie, Diego, Dominic, Peter, Donna, Celeste, Robin, me and a number of others have been excoriated by this.

Everything that the Grant Writer said on the record is exactly what she continues to say on the record. What she said off the record is a totally different story...

New Milford should never have let that property go without at least a bid. And it should deny Hekemians application and attempt to purchase it once abailable again.

Please excuse my misspelling. I didnt pick it up till after i posted

Municipalities should not be in the business of purchasing land unless it is absolutely necessary-not as an alternative to opposing a developers application. Political activism is the backbone of any democracy and that is what must continue to occur. United Water is the perpetrator of this development yet we don't politically protest their position. I am going to write a letter to their headquarters opposing the selling of land for this application. More must be done than just writing a letter. I think it would behoove SOD to investigate the best political action campaign against United Water. Every time a land owner wants to develop in a municipality, they cannot attempt to purchase the land if they oppose the development. Rather, the citizens must oppose these developments using all of the political protest resources available. I know that "in your face" protest strategies may not be acceptable to many, however that is the only way to get things done. I am writing my letter and stapling my check to my water bill but I am also willing to join any protest in front of the house of any corporate representative of Bergen County United Water. We must expose the public policies of corporations like United Water and publicly humiliate and shame their representatives, any chance possible. This is happening in our neighborhood, our homes, our towns, this is personal. Whatever is personal is also political. More political action is needed.

"Understanding that the United Water property was in the middle of a private sale, Casey said that the town could not interrupt that transaction"

They came to her after the fact, the town should have tried to buy the property with or without grants. To put this all on the grant writer is ridiculous. Both the past and current mayor should have made an effort to buy this land it is that simple.

No Tony, let's fight the power of corporations. How many times can we buy land? Our protest abilities have no limits but our purchasing power is limited. The people united will never be defeated. I am so convinced that the power of citizenship beats all!!!

How about getting your facts straight about Carlton Place. Check Bergen County Open Space Trust Fund website on Page 15 of the 1999 - 2011 Program Summary Report. What one sided reporting.

In the competitive world of grant writing, isn't everything a gamble? Isn't 50% of a project cost better than having to pay 100%. Get your facts straight.

I would think that in any grant request application initially a bit of confidentiality is presumed. Now we know that some things that are said to her are repeated albeit off the cuff. I'm sure that will play no part in any future requests from town council members throughout the area.

Ann, could you provide the full context of the quote "it is a gamble" in the first paragraph of the article?
I also agree with APMPE's comment on Carlton Place. if in fact 50% of the grants requested were granted, should you not have made that clear, especially if you were going to include it in a story that has nothing to do with Carlton Place?

Also are there any facts and figures that you could share about the % of grants the town has applied for in the past, that were granted. Thank you.

Thanks for the info tony however I am very aware of the issues and we disagree. I do not believe that United Water will ever succumb to giveing the land-yes that is a dream. I want them to realize that there are consequences of their corporate polices. It is not Utopian to believe that citizens have an obligation to try to control their land by using all the political resources available. Even if political protest does not prevail, it absolutely must be done. There must be political opposition to any negative land development in our neighborhoods. I will never forget how many people told me that I could never win against the Walgreen's developer.....they were wrong. Good thing I didn't listen to them,

You mentioned me by name twice. Must be I'm catching on or that my comments are hitting home with you. Since my problem is with the water property, you must be in the group defending them. Good luck. Now that Mr. Ulises has told us of her inconsistency and your very name, please explain to the readers how you plan on keeping Marlene Casey honest? She is the accused not me.

In the end, it doesn't matter how we got into this mess. We waste an enormous amount of time and energy fulminating and arguing and pointing fingers. What's important is that we do everything we can to keep this project from going forward. Somehow this situation has devolved into a free for all. Too much energy is going into fighting old battles and personal slights. Come on. Unite against the development and work together. Every day I wake up and read one more article that divides us and saps our energy. Keep your eyes on the prize. Stop looking behind you.

and you think anyone is going to respect you after this gem of yours?

Bubble
2:22 pm on Monday, December 31, 2012
What you're all overlooking is global farting. That is the obvious reason for global warming. The US is the turd most poopulated country in the world now. And with our borders open, we have more farters coming every day. Pretty soon the whole country will be 98.6. Use your brains guys!

You're a disgrace to this forum.

You SOD people seem to think that this website is your own personal arena. Stop saying "let's all" unite against UW. There are those of us who want some development. You have your mailing list, use that for your pep rallies. To me, you did call Marlene a liar, she says one thing at a meeting and then another privately. Don't dance around it .

so now, it's no longer Mayor Subrizi, Councilmen Ashley, Collucci and Robalino, former council men Rebsch and Berner, Former Councilwoman Scavetta, Mrs Collucci, Mr Sheeran, Jimmy Drake, Marlene Casey, me, Robin, Tim Mc Ilroy or any of the others whom I have forgotten's fault.

It's all Ann Piccirillos fault now.

Did you ever happen to think perhaps it's you??

Lolita, first of all I've never called Scavetta out on anything regarding this property, nor have I ever called out my friend Rebsch or Ms. Casey. You lumped everyone else's comments on the Patch on to me (btw, Bubbles figured you out already). i speak nothing but the truth here and I have no regrets about what I say. One thing is for sure, I could never be a politician because you won't get a bullshit story out of me. Have a great weekend.

"Bubbles figured you out already"?. So, I guess that means because of the same message coming from different people, you are also Michelle, Lori, Miriam, Anne Marie, Rosemary, etc. With all of your allegations, misquotes, changes in political hero's and parties - your voice is a joke. You just got done calling Marlene a liar and here you say you have never called her out?! Have a great weekend - uh oh maybe I'm you now.

Lolita, whoever you really are, I never called Marlene a liar, nor anyone during this exchange. Please stop dragging me into your endless misinterpretation of what people are really saying here.

Ann, can you please address this commentator who continues to spew lies about everyone under so many different aliases?

Nmmom, so when are you going to keep Ulises's friend Marlene honest? Or is it just me? Say hello to Bubbles and all the rest of your phony names.

I use to believe the Patch was a forum for folks to exchange ideas and have intelligent debate on subjects that concern the people of this community. Ann, as editor you certainly do not want to infringe on anyones right to express their opinion, but possibly, if you insisted that people who post comments on the patch use their real names (first and last) it might eliminate some of mindless banter and petty bickering and encourage honest thoughtful debate and a certain amount of mutual respect. There are several points of view to every issue. Many of these points of view can be valid. Should not the merits of the ideas being presented be the focal point of the discussion? Shouldn't the dicussion be about what is best for the people of this community, their children and their futures? Disagreement over these issues should not make folks enimies. In the end we are all nieghbors and we have to live with the results of any decisions that are made and we all have to live together.

Thanks John, I agree completely. But I think Patch upper management wants more Comments as opposed to well thought out, Thomas Jefferson type manuscripts. We mere mortals don't have the training to create daily masterpieces, so we just blurt out whatever is on our mind.

In a conversation with a lady that you and I both know, she told me there is no honor in an anonymous fit of juvenile tantrum. But, I really don't think too many of us read this to be swayed in an argument, I think the titillating back and forth is what pays The Patch's bills.

I think Ann has been doing an excellent job (in between being a referee) as an investigative reporter, updates on what everybody is talking about and has now included totally varied subject matter .

How's about if we just ignore the anonymous hecklers and interact with ONLY they who have put their real name on the Comment?

Hello Jimmy,
I hope all is well with you and yours. It is not that I would expect Jeffersonian type debates, just sincerity, honesty, and a little courage. I feel that attaching ones name to their comments would encourage that.
I can't speak to the desires of the Patch upper management. I would hope that they aspire to be a serious news organization and not the instigators of spectacle. Possibly Ann may care to comment on that. In any event I do appreciate you and all the others who choose to use their real names when they post.

Maybe those of us with names should petition the Patch to only post comments from real people. I'm not sure how we would go about doing that. It's just a thought.

Greetings John - you and I are on the very same page and I too asked the near exact request of Editor Ann. She did, however, inform me that there are huge cases with Google and other blogs before Supreme Court fighting these very same fictitious moniker battles. This will not change anytime soon. And that's really quite sad. I honestly no longer enjoy the back-and-forth banter here. It's feeling too NJ Forum to me - and I stopped reading that garbage in a hurry. Then to see fictional names use me in their verbal vomit is also sad. Many know where I sit regarding this property - but clearly an individual using my name hasn't a clue. So I implore you Ann - can you not go to the AOL leadership and join the fictitious moniker fight - then maybe perhaps all your effort and hard work reporting won't go to total waste on the same 10 fictional characters? Because, currently, PERSONALLY, I feel it's going to great waste.

I put that to Ann about four months ago. She said it would be brought up at a Friday Patch meeting, but never heard any more from her.

John, Peter - I just don't see The Patch prohibiting anonymous Commenters.

I remember a class I took from way back in the purple haze sixties where the thought of, as a punishment - having a stadium full of people just stare angrily down at a person who had done whatever bad.

When these a.c's (anonymous commenters) put something up that is just not right or decent, DON'T fulfill their attention need with a response.

simple as that.

Peter, we're moving along. Now we have to decide on which name we're going to use for the banner.

Slantha.

Anyone else out there feel the discussions here should be between people and not imaginary characters? Ann P. what is your personal opinion on this subject? What is the position of the Patch Management?

Ann,
I do have another couple of question. Does the first amendment protect the rights of non entities or ficticious people? Has this ever been tested in court? If you denied Donald Duck the right to post on the patch would it be Donald Duck who sued you for violating his first amendment rights. I'm not trying to be funny, I'm trying to understand.
I do think your reporting is usually excellent and thorough. I do not intend that any of my comments to be a slant against your reporting.

Seems to me the content of the comment is more important than the moniker attached to it.

Ann, the above is how the demise of the Forum started.

I am truly sorry it is now happening here also.

Hello Donald Duck,
Well, maybe you are right. I wouldn't want to create a situation where someone was afraid to comment.The RavinMaven also made a good point. I just can't help but wonder if people wouldn't be more civil to one another and sincere about what they posted if they used their real names. Hell, I'm conceding a debate to an imaginary Ravin and Donald Duck. I have had enough. You all have a good day.

Having been personally attacked on this forum, to the extent that my daughter who lives in Georgia felt compelled to ask one of the annonymous posters to stop being so personal, I believe that the intimidation and off the wall accusations have destroyed what should be a community conversation. You know who you are and I'm pretty sure most of those who post using their real names know who you are as well. You have singlehandedly destroyed the environment that Ann has worked so hard to cultivate.

If I had to choose between having a civil conversation with someone or knowing what that person is truly thinking, I would take the latter, always. No matter how passionate or vehement the sentiments are. If they have to wear a mask to get these things off their chests and to clear their minds, I’m fine with that. People’s feelings will come out one way or the other. They always do. If they are hating on you, they will find ways to hurt you. Venting is one of the least destructive avenues hate can take (though I know a lot of damage can and has been done by words).

I did not enjoy the feeling of being blasted in the middle of a party, but I respected it, and was enlightened by it. There is beauty in genuine emotion; I’m not so hot on phony measured out personalities. I understood why Nicki Minaj got overwhelmed. She was right about the others trying to manipulate the singer into being true to them rather than her own self. And I prefer Brandi’s refreshingly straightforward style over Kyle’s hidden malice that seeps through her false façade of class and civility. It’s okay to act like a motherfr as Mauricio was doing, but it’s not okay to call that person one. It’s more painful to me when I discover someone is nice to my face, yet trashing me behind my back.

I am grateful for Patch that we have a place to vent, and that there is a certain amount of freedom to do that. I think it’s healthy. Most anonymous people aren’t as anonymous as they think they are anyway, their voices are so distinct, people tend to recognize them. I kind of think that’s funny.

John D. I think you are one of the most beautiful blessings to New Milford. You are a true gentleman, with so much integrity you raise us all to another level.

NewMilforddadmakingendsmeet, I just did some research and what you said around December 11th or maybe a couple of days earlier makes you look like Nodstradamus. Seriously, with so many bloated distortions, at least you told the truth WHICH FINALLY did come out.

Thank you.

Lolita, I don't hide behind phony names and multiple identities. I'm not afraid that people know what I believe in and care about. I have nothing to be ashamed of. I can only guess that you understand that your posts are hurtful and can be construed as threatening. Or perhaps you don't want your family to know what you're up to. You are not fooling anyone. As for your political "friends" I have respect for them. I thank them for their service to our community. I believe we can engage in exchanges of ideas without trying to destroy each other. If you can't respond in a civil manner you do not deserve to be taken seriously.

Especially when they accuse others of doing exactly what they are doing. If anyone thinks every Commentor on here uses only one name, I have this property in sunny Syria that I'd like to sell you.

Keeping in mind that I asked Ann to go to her management and try to cut it down to one real name only - four months ago . I might have even asked Tracy a while back also when I used my own name and got smacked left and right by anonymous Commentors. Now our Celeste has told us that Ann did try, but with the power of the first amendment, anyone can probably have as many phony names as they want. Just the same way as the Forum eventually became what it is now.

So, as Julius Caesar may have said, "Let the games begin". and btw, if amateurs can abuse the first amendment like this right here, imagine what could be done with the second amendment, should politicians get a bunch of anti gun altogether correspondence.!

ask yourself Bulys***.

Naively I answered you before, so who's kidding whom?

Le Bron has to be one of the coolest guys out there. Not only did he congratulate that lucky guy, but he tackled him no less! What a nice story!

Funniest thing is watching all those 6 '10" - 300 pound basketball players hiding from a little bat no bigger than their palm.

In response to the 64 personal emails I have received since yesterday:
I chose not to put a filter on allowing comments because it felt too much like censorship to me and if you know me, I wholeheartedly believe in the freedom of people to engage in debate. However, any comment so outside the scope is unacceptable and I ask all of you to please stick to the topic.
I am charged with the responsibility of making sure this site remains a useful, credible tool for providing information and allowing people to add their voice. But you also have a responsibility, as well. Don't respond to the people you feel add no value to the conversation. Those of you who keep complaining to me while continuing to respond to them makes me feel like a hamster on a wheel. This site can only work if we work together.
As I said previously--I am committed to providing New Milford with information that other news sources would not waste resources on. Regardless if you agree with me or not. Even better when you don't because often, I get my best leads from people who comment and add a piece of information to the story that I did not know existed and could find no record of. It gives me a new direction for my search for information.
However, when the comments are collectively driven away from the topic it serves only the person who wants attention taken from that topic. Names should not be the focus of time and attention. The person's comment should be and I ask, again, that they remain relevant.

64 complaints to the editor.

THAT says it all.

Not as funny as addressing newmilforddad. then tonyg answers me. Not as funny as reading miriam lying, submitting PROOF of her lie and in spite of the proof right in front of her, she tugs on the hearts and flowers of her poor innocent baby child while she and her zombies attack they who are totally innocent. Nor as funny as Ulises (In spite of PROOF) actually having the gaul to think that readers are that stupid to believe that he did not accuse Marlene of saying one thing officially and then another privately and yet, he is NOT telling everyone that she is a liar! When I read 64 private emails, I saw nothing other than 64 attempts to intimidate Ann as SOD has intimidated so many others. It is a tribute to Ann's professionalism that she allows me the opportunity to submit (PROOF WHICH WAS RIGHT HERE in the Patch) articles as PROOF of what I say. I will not even think about the possibility to jeopardize Ann's position here with my truth telling. I am not that important and obviously SOD does not care who gets hurt except of course one of their attack dogs. And, since the individuals who I always defend have not said one word to reinforce my words, then maybe they have already surrendered to the SOD intimidation. So, SOD may have won the battle of The Patch by destroying anyone who shows PROOF of their lies,can't wait till Hekemian gets OK to do any anything he wants to with the property HE owns. Can't wait for Ulises to claim the judge was going to be "called out" also.

I am afraid that I was the cause of this entire debacle by requesting only people with real names post their comments. I hoped that folks would temper their comments. I was wrong; instead of creating a more civil discussion it generated more hate. Miriam Pickett took the brunt of most of that hate. When hate is administered it is usually done with the intent to cause pain. Knowing Miriam, it worked, I'm sure her feelings were hurt, but she is a woman of fine and strong character she will overcome. Hate does hurt the person who is on the receiving end, but it does more harm to the individual who is generating the hate. It grows like a malignancy and swallows up any goodness that is within the person who hates with such passion.
Every person from those who are wealthy and well educated to the poorest and most scantily educated amongst us, when spoken to or addressed, should be done so with dignity and with a sense nobility, regardless of the individuals point of view on any particular subject. If people would believe in the goodness of kindness and develop a sense of empathy think of the enlightened discussions that could be had instead of the squalor that has been taking place here. As I said it was I who started this discussion. It was I who took us off the theme of the original article. I apologize to you all for that. I don't post comments on the patch very often. I will refrain from posting my thoughts in the future. I will leave that to Lolita and Donald Duck.

It is unfortunate that this forum is being used to point fingers rather than plan a concerted action to make all players accountable for any policies that are made or not made. It is important to review the errors of the past and go forward. Stop blaming the elected officials for everything, the truth is that the citizens fell asleep at the wheel but now they have woken up but are off the road. The citizens must take responsibility for the fact that the land was not a part of public policy in the past. NOW NEW MILFORD MUST GO FORWARD. The focus must remain on United Water, the members of the Zoning board, elected officials, the application proceedings, the Bergen County planner, the EPA flood maps and citizen action strategies. I just don't understand why Lolita and others are controlling the dialogue. Why even respond to comments that are not productive? Keep focused on the prize, control of the land in your town. I suggest that any protest action against UW should be in a public meeting forum-check the website for their public forum events and lets interrupt them and make this fight more public and inconvenient. A letter writing campaign to United Water and our state and federal senators is the least we could do.......get busy and stop wasting time responding to fruitless accusations. Am I in the minority when I say that I can't believe that the maps used for this application are actually acceptable to our EPA???? Our elected officials need to respond to this!

Also, has anyone looked into whether or not your Mayor and Council have the authority to hear an appeal of any decisions of the Zoning board? If yes, then this strategy should be in the works now! The Zoning board must realize that if this appeal is an option, their decision will be extremely scrutinized before it even reaches an appeals court of NJ. The Zoning board must realize that the court of public opinion is more influential than the appeals court of NJ. As far as I can see, there is no reason to allow for any variances-at all. The developer should develop without any D variances. Any Zoning board members that are afraid of the developer should fear public opinion more!!! Lets continue to use the venue to make people aware of the actual issues like-why should a D variance be granted if there is no real community benefit of a new supermarket or more housing units?

Thank you Tomasina for your great points.

I don't know the answer to your question regarding the M&C's authorithy over a ZB applcation (I would think they don't have a say but I'm not sure).

Tomasina: I think that because the members of the Council have publicly declared for or against the development, there will be no appeal in that direction. As we get deeper into winter it is very difficult to keep people engaged. You are right. This is just a sideshow. The real battle takes place at the BOA meetings.

Can anyone tell me where to find tonites Zoning Board Agenda? Thank you.

Glad I asked. Thought we had one tonight. Thank you P. Rebsch!